Henning Schulte-Noelle: There’s no doubt, we would not have been the only ones to be concerned by a result like that. And that was not the aim of this exercise. We wanted to have an independent, honest and incisive analysis of our past during the era of National Socialism. And that’s what we’ve got.

Gerald D. Feldman: The concentration camps themselves were not insured. This was because they were treated like government property and were not insured as a matter of course. But the industrial enterprises of the SS located on the sites of concentration camps were organized along the lines of private enterprise, and these facilities were insured. There were factories run by the SS on the sites of virtually all the concentration camps. The policies written by Allianz and other insurers of these factories returned a profit just like any other insurance contract with an industrial company.

Schulte-Noelle: Allianz continued to go about its business in the Third Reich. My initial impression is that although the business conduct of Allianz was not necessarily anti-Semitic and the company certainly wasn’t a fanatical partner of the government, it made no attempt to go against the regime. The company was already actively seeking out contacts with Göring before 1933, and particularly during the latter years we can be accused of opportunistic conduct and going along with the regime.

Feldman: His example was a signal to others. Then he was Reich Economics Minister, and he and Eduard Hilgard, Head of the Reich Economic Group ‘Insurance’ (Reichsgruppe Versicherungen), openly committed themselves to the regime. As the regime became generally accepted and its policies became more radical Allianz and its employees also became more involved. Everything appeared to be normal business dealings, and abnormal business suddenly became normal business.

Schulte-Noelle: As the biggest company in the market you couldn’t hide if you wanted to maintain your position. My impression is that we were too concerned about the impending nationalization of the insurance industry and took too little notice of fundamental moral values. There were too few people and institutions who conducted themselves in accordance with normal moral standards at that time. This is the extent of the involvement that our country – and this company – is guilty of.

Schulte-Noelle: This dedication impressed me and I am very grateful to Professor Feldmann. The character of a company very often comes through more clearly than elsewhere in the treatment of its own Jewish employees. The book tells me that at least there was no systematic campaign against Jewish employees and customers. There are some examples where the conduct of Allianz toward Jewish employees showed decency, for example by helping them to escape abroad. But there are also fates like that of James Freudenburg, a highly respected director who had to resign in 1934 and was then murdered at a concentration camp in 1942. The fate of people like this is highly disturbing when you read the book

Schulte-Noelle: That has been a process of dawning consciousness – also brought about by the generation change. It became clear to us that the period between 1933 and 1945 had not been covered by the in-depth analysis required, that there was unfinished business. (...)

Schulte-Noelle: The decision to delve into the past was clearly taken before the first joint claims. They were filed in 1997. But we had already said in 1996 that we wanted to have the archive opened up to research and wanted to commission the study. In the middle of April 1997 I didn’t yet know how many life insurance cases there were. The fact that we were overrun with claims naturally increased the urgency of the matter, but that was not the reason for instigating this project of writing our history. (...)

Feldman: It’s highly unlikely that there are still a lot of policies like that, which have not been paid out in some form or other.

Schulte-Noelle: But Professor Feldman, against this background what is your opinion of the accusation that insurance companies made financial gains in this way?

Feldman: No, that simply doesn’t make any sense. During the war, insurance companies generated profits from various types of insurance, but not in the area of life insurance. Financial gain during the war would basically entail winning. But the Germans lost and therefore this was not business that brought in profit.

Schulte-Noelle: We did not enter into discussion about individual guilt here. This was a method of enabling a large number of companies to participate. This is about a joint recognition of responsibility by politics, industry and society, a unanimous sign of solidarity with the victims.

Schulte-Noelle: Certainly not, and it can never be closed. We will take anyone seriously who contacts us and says that they could have a claim. If we have the feeling that this claim is also justified, the German Foundation Initiative is provided with adequate resources to meet these claims. No one in our generation will be able to regard this chapter of history as closed. We must do everything in our power to ensure that something like this never happens again.

Schulte-Noelle: I found the insidious process by which real values were lost particularly depressing. This process was linked up with the human weakness of embracing the pressure to conform more enthusiastically than would have been necessary with a little more courage.

Schulte-Noelle: Yes. And I believe every one of us must read the book in this light: "How would I have reacted in this situation?" Otherwise it’s virtually impossible to analyze the people and their motives with fairness and intellectual honesty.

Schulte-Noelle: Of course it was a risk. No one knew what would come out at the end. But as I said at the beginning: we wanted an incisive analysis of our history during these twelve years, and the result does not make happy reading. There is nothing here that can be glossed over, and in any case that’s not what we wanted. Professor Feldman has found and analyzed a whole range of depressing aspects. This knowledge and the resulting responsibility will always accompany Allianz in the future.